Behind the Curtain: Arthur Milner on “Tommy and Père”

Since moving to Regina almost five years ago, Arthur has written Tommy and Père, for Curtain Razors, and Weyburn 1959, which is now in development with Architect Theatre. Getting to Room Temperature (“a hard-hitting, sentimental and funny one-person play about dying”) was produced by Curtain Razors in February 2022, and Souffler la veilleuse, its French translation, was produced by Saskatoon’s La Troupe du Jour in February. He has also worked with On Cue Performance Hub and the Playwrights Reading Series, and he taught theatre history at the University of Regina.
Arthur has a long association with Ottawa’s Great Canadian Theatre Company (GCTC), where he was a resident playwright and then artistic director. His produced and published scripts include Zero Hour, Learning to Live with Personal Growth, 1997, Masada, and Cheap Thrill (all premiered by GCTC), Sisters in the Great Day Care War (Local 2204 CUPE), Crusaders of the World (Green Thumb), and The City (Workshop West). He was part of the GCTC collective that created Sandinista!, which was presented at Sheldon Williams Collegiate in 1982 as part of a Canadian tour. Facts, a murder mystery set in the Palestinian West Bank, premiered at GCTC in 2010, toured Palestine and Israel in Arabic, and was produced in Istanbul (in Turkish) and London, U.K.

The following interview is with playwright, Arthur Milner, and Johanna Bundon, the Artistic Associate of Curtain Razors.

Can you tell me about your background?

I’m 74, so there’s a lot of background. I became a teenager in the 60s, which explains a lot about me. I found my way into theatre by mistake. I was trying to get into medical school, but some friends had started a theatre company in Ottawa, the Great Canadian Theatre Company (GCTC). I got involved, first as an actor, but very quickly I joined the Board. This was the early days of Canadian theatre. GCTC decide to do only Canadian plays – plays written by Canadians. We also wanted to do political theatre, and there were a handful of decent plays on political subjects, but we ran out of them pretty soon. So, it was up to us to write them. We had no playwrights, so we started writing collectively. Then, I started writing on my own. I was very involved with GCTC for many years, as resident playwright and then as Artistic Director. Somewhere along the way, I met Jennifer Brewin, who is now my wife, and five years ago, she was hired to be Artistic Director at the Globe. That’s how I got to Regina.

What inspired you to imagine a meeting between Tommy Douglas and Père Murray during the 1962 Doctors' Strike?

Arthur: We got here at the beginning of COVID, and the Globe Theatre had just shut down for renovations. Jennifer started meeting local theatre artists, and she met Johanna [Bundon] and Jayden [Pfeifer] and they invited us for dinner. I told them about my play “Getting to Room Temperature.” Soon after, Curtain Razors produced it. Johanna started telling me about Father Murray. Johanna?

Johanna: My folks grew up in Wilcox and they went to Notre Dame College, and my grandpa and grandma both taught there. I knew a little bit about Pere Athol Murray, because he was a friend of my grandparents. I told Arthur that Notre Dame would be an interesting place to visit.

Arthur: You said I should go look at the Tower of God at the school. It happened that my wife’s mother was visiting, it was a beautiful spring day, and we were looking for something to do. We drove out and walked around and the whole thing was fascinating. He built this 60-foot high tower. One wall was dedicated to Islam, one to Judaism, another to science, and the fourth to Christianity. I grew up Jewish, so I’m not inclined to admire priests, but I wondered, what priest does that kind of thing?

I started reading about him, and I read that Père was a vicious opponent of Medicare. That struck me as very odd. He seemed so progressive for the time. I wondered, why would someone who cared so much about children’s education and wellbeing be opposed to medicare? And not just opposed but viciously opposed. He toured the province making speeches in support of the striking doctors and in one of speech he was quoted as saying s, “If the government goes through with this, there will be violence, and God help us if there isn’t”.

That’s when I thought, I could write a play about him. And I thought: he and Tommy Douglas, two Saskatchewan legends facing off about medicare. I started researching. Luckily, there’s a lot of material about both of them.

Johanna: And people came forward with a lot of information and stories.

Arthur: Especially people from the college. People who knew Père, were friends with, admired him. They read early drafts and came to staged readings. They were determined that I get him right. It was a real treat!

Johanna: On Cue Performance Hub has a playreading series and they supported a workshop of the piece and some of us from Curtain Razors participated. I got really curious about how this play could be a springboard to explore beyond medicare, Tommy Douglas, and Père — to explore ideas about broadcast and media, and how we participate in it communally in the sharing of information in the early 60s. Its rural and urban divide, and all that. I asked Arthur whether or not Curtain Razors could present the work and whether Lee Henderson, Jayden Pfeifer and I could create an installation that could support the work.

Arthur: I agreed, we signed a contract, and here we are today!

The play explores fairness, faith, and societal collapse—why do you think these themes resonate so strongly with this historical moment?

Arthur: It was a very hostile time. There were big demonstrations, threats, hate mail, and families split, with some supporting the doctors and some against the strike. People were really polarized.

Johanna: There was real anger; laws were broken, people have gone to trial about it. There was real hatred, it was hard to have a polite conversation about it.

Arthur: It wasn’t really my intention, but it is relevant to the present day. We’re living in a time of great polarization.

How does the play explore the intersection of faith and politics?

It doesn’t really. They don’t have religious arguments. I heard Tommy Douglas speak once, and I have read many books about him. There’s a whole book-length interview with him that was done in 1957. He was a Baptist Minister in Weyburn, part of a Christian movement called the Social Gospel, about people looking after each other and taking care of each. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen a quotation from Tommy that includes the word God. Father Murray would invoke God, but I think he’s more influenced by the Greek philosophers than by Christianity.

The characters represent opposing perspectives—do you see this as a reflection of current political debates on healthcare and social justice?

Arthur: I was concerned with Tommy and Père: What would they say in that time and place? I had a vague sense that the play would be relevant, but never I thought, “What could I write that would be relevant today?” My job was to make the characters live in their own terms. But I do think it is relevant. At the end of the play, Tommy says, “We can disagree forcefully and have fierce arguments, but what you are doing is reckless. You are encouraging violence and challenging the basics of democracy.” I think that very much reflects current debates. I don’t think, for example, that Donald Trump cares much for democracy.

Johanna: Curtain Razors has been working with Arthur and the team of artists for the development of this for the past two years. What we’ve found is that it is a play that brings out the desire to tell stories, the desire to converse, and the desire to start a debate. Some questions we have about Pere’s intentions may be answered.

This event combines an installation, the play, and a post-show conversation. What do you hope audiences take away from this multi-part experience?

Johanna: The installation is created by Bundon Pfeifer Henderson. We are three artists who have been making and touring work together for the past 10 years. We hope it provides context for younger folks in their 20s or 30s who don’t have a living memory of the journey to Medicare. Then, the audience experiences a great play with great performances and a great discussion. The post-show discussion feels really important after everyone experiences the debate. It gives space for people to bring their own knowledge and experiences forward, but also to collectively trouble and chat with one another and practice talking to one another. I think that’s been a big learning in this process. We rarely have space to respectfully converse and share differences.

Arthur: I really like the talkbacks. I wrote a play about Israel/Palestine fifteen years ago. We used to do talkbacks once a week, but so many people stayed for the talkbacks, they were so eager to talk, that we did them after every show. So, I’ve kept encouraging that practice. The audience learns a lot, I hope, but I learn a lot. Sometimes, I’ve made changes because of a talkback.

Johanna: For Tommy and Père, we’re having talkbacks after every show with special guests. We’ll have Dr Ankit Kapur, one of the founders of The Nest Health Centre; and Greg Marchildon, author of “Tommy Douglas and the Quest for Medicare in Canada”; and a series of partner organizations like the Museum Association of Saskatchewan, the REM, Heritage Regina, and Notre Dame College. It is a great conversation starter and a great way to connect with people you don’t usually get to connect with. It’s such a gift to present a piece of art that instigates that. The other thing that makes this so important is that in Saskatchewan, we don’t always understand ourselves to be central to the country's history, or to have great stories, but this is a fantastic story.

If you could have one conversation with either Tommy Douglas or Père Murray, what would you ask them?

Arthur: I would say to Père, look around at what’s going on, take a few days, read a few speeches by Donald Trump, read a few speeches by the opposition. Listen to Pierre Poilievre and Mark Carney. Who would you vote for? That’s what I would ask. I don’t know what his answer would be. And I’d ask, what do you think of public health care now?